The good the bad the ugly and just plan funny.
Let’s start with the funny
My friend Kyle York who I like and respect and is NOT politically motivated came with a pole with signs that claimed fellow citizens might actually be impaled by the killer sculpture whose diabolical design must be likened to a Venus fly trap to lure unsuspecting children to their doom.
My next nominee for most hilarious was Lance Ingmire, who claimed lighting might arc off the memorial setting the Visitor’s center on fire along with igniting the rest of the west side. Lance I didn’t know the sculpture was the equivalent of the Hiroshima bomb. Jeez and I thought impaling children was bad.
The bad
Michael Messinger co-chair of the Visitor Center Board who is still pushing for the Fire House location even though it is clear it will be drive by memorial
The ugly
Vigorous claims that Politics had nothing to do with this along with claims that members of the cities Democratic Committee never discussed the matter or had taken a stand, pro or con along with everyone who called the sculpture an ugly pile of scrap.
The good
The many people who came in support of the sculpture and the City Center location
The Players
Pro
Joel Reed, Director of the Saratoga Arts Council, the soft spoken man who for sensitive reasons was forced to apologize for his swift boating letter even though we all know it’s the truth.
James Howard Kunstler. In his books such as Home From Nowhere, The City in Mind, and The Long Emergency (2005), he pushes hard on taboo topics like a post-oil America. He describes America as a poorly planned and "tragic landscape of highway strips, parking lots, housing tracts, mega-malls, junked cities, and ravaged countryside that makes up the everyday environment where most Americans live and work."
Needless to say when he got up two weeks ago to speak I was a tad nervous as he is the only man I know blunter than me. But he stated that he came to speak in support of the 2 local artists who gave their spirit and time to this project. Jim went on to say “They are expressing a memorial idea in the language of our time. If the public decides it doesn’t like it, it can be moved; but give it a try.”
James K. Kettlewell. author of Saratoga Springs: An Architectural History and professor emeritus of Skidmore College,who gave it a healthy endorsement
Dee Sarno. past president of the arts council
Lew and Pat Titterton. winner of this years Starbuck award given by the Democratic committee to honor Saratoga’s outstanding citizens less than two weeks ago. They gave over a $1000 to the project
Other noteworthy people
Matthew J. Jones
Sally and Larry King
The Saratoga Springs Elementary School Students{ Who gave over $1000 of their lunch money for the project}
Phil Glotzbach. President of Skidmore.
Barbara Glaser of Saratoga open space
The opponents.
Kyle York. a passionate man who is sometimes misguided.
Lance Ingmire. a member of the Heritage Area/Visitors Center Board,who claims the Board and others in the community were 'blindsided' and 'emasculated' by the Arts Council when they refused to stroke his ego. Source HERE
Really Lance emasculate?
1. To castrate.
2. To deprive of strength or vigor; weaken.
So what was it, Joel Reed cut your nuts off or did he hide your Viagra?
He also said he would give one grand of his own money to truck it in to Saratoga for 9/11
Phyllis Amyot, Self-proclaimed Grande Dame of the Saratoga Arts scene who thankfully wasn’t at the meeting tonight.
Peter Martin, member of the Saratoga Democratic committee who will tell you with a straight face this isn’t about politics
Lew Benton, Chris Mathiesen Candidate for Public Safety commissioner, Eileen Finnegan who is seeking the deputy spot in Public safety, and pretty much all the usual suspects of the Saratoga Democrats for change and Saratoga Citizen that will do whatever is needed to sabotage any project in the city that isn’t a new Police Station
And the Winner is
No one
The Mayor announced a committee to try to find a place in the City for the sculpture. The Democratic Committee loses for they surely pissed off a lot of people with their fully transparent and shallow complaints against the sculpture. Many Democrats in the Community are now fully aware of your treachery, lies and personal agendas.
So I can’t fault the Council for their position but I will warn everyone.
Some Major news networks have been snooping around my blog and now I’ve received one e-mail from a major news magazine that I have a good relationship with. This story might have legs and it doesn’t paint a very pretty picture of the pettiness in our little town
This story may not be over yet.
Stay tuned
47 comments:
If Kunstler is for it must have merit. He hates everything.
Thanks for report JT
You know, this sculpture combines two perfect elements; art and "9-11". How can anyone say no to it? If you could only add, "for the children" it would be a Saratoga trifecta!
I propose a 25 foot tall crushed car sculpture to commemorate all the Saratoga children who have died or been injured in car accidents.
Or maybe a 25 foot tall holocaust sculpture.
Why in the world is this gigantic sculpture appropriate for Saratoga? Strip off the "art" issue, and take away the 9-11 incantation and consider, "is this REALLY something you want in Saratoga". Seriously, think about it....
idiots.
John, Did anything come out last night about Who's fault it is that the sculpture doesn't fit at the city center?
A good question, 8:49
ACCOUNTABILITY, anyone?
Bullshit and politics I hope someone sues somebody and Saratoga ends up on 20/20 to show the world what a small minded and corrupt Democratic party we have.
"He also said he would give one grand of his own money to truck it in to Saratoga for 9/11'
So lets see if lance puts his money were his fake tan is
The open display of, jealousy, pettiness and small town mentality made me ashamed to be a Saratogian
The envious die not once, but as oft as the envied win applause. ~Baltasar Gracian
I'm a little shocked at all the vitriol. You and Kyle York are a refreshing reminder that however rare, people can disagree and be civil at the same time. It’s a lost art, but one I hope we see more of in the coming days. That being said…
I was fine with the sculpture at the city center, even though I personally think it's ugly. But the change in location reminds me of Johnson moving the Rec Center from out on Wiebel to its current location. A similarly fucked up process seems to have been (not) followed. Loads of time to get a decision made up front, knee jerk decision that will piss off a ton of people at the last minute.
One thing absent from all the debate on the side of the "we followed the process and did it by the book" folks is a blow by blow, with dates, of the process that was followed BEFORE A DECISON WAS MADE, including the links to where someone would have stayed informed. I have yet to see a link to an archive at saratogian.com that is pre-decision inviting the public for discussion, or input. Since we have an art district now (I laugh every time I hear that) why not have worked this into the “festival” they have there?
Or, why on some night when we had a “HATS OFF” or Victorian Street Walk we couldn’t have had all the artists vying for the commissions set up at the location (that had already been vetted) to show what they have in mind.
Then, the city could have published all the pictures, diagrams, whatever else the artists supplied on the city website so those of us who hate going to meetings could have had a look and provided input. If you, John, can have a blog on the topic, so could our city. (Of course the rules for discourse would require folks being a little more civil.)
As someone who reads the paper daily, I was embarrassed to admit that the first I heard of this effort was after a location and sculptor had been selected. Perhaps I need to pay more attention. But I think at least part of the problem was those running the show had their idea of what they wanted to happen, and decided to keep input to a minimum to get their own way.
You can say what you want about the good, bad, ugly and funny people, but it’s the process that is broken.
For my $.02, put it in the reflecting pool over in the state park by SPAC.
I think all of this conflict could be quickly resolved if everyone in Saratoga Springs would just sign up for my Ethos course. And, as always, I'm willing to give a 5% discount for cash.
Vanguard
This is a sad commentary on Saratoga Springs and the petty jealosies and political games manship underlying the actions of a few to derail a worth while project. It is especially sad for many reasons not the least of which is the contributations made to the project by the school children. I know there are many comments about the sculpture being "ugly." It was made from steel remnants of the Twin Towers. I would expect it to be large, awkward and broken-like it is. Whatever happened to the feelings we had that day? The candlelight vigils, the donations, the flags (so many flags we were fashioning flags from safety pins). We swore we would "never forget." Sometimes I feel like the elitists have taken over my small city. When did patriotism become a code word? Why is wanting to express love of country and honor for the innocent dead (and I know Ms. Amyot doesn't believe they were innocent)controversial? Why do people look down on those who honor the flag as red necked, ignorant bigots? When did being a Democrat mean giving up that sense of patriotism and pride? I truly hope this is resolved. But we will never, ever have another chance to remember the 10th anniversary of 9/11.
Kyle York has become a civic embarrasement. He is truly a full-out jester, but the only one who think the act is entertaining is himself.
News media from around the Capital Region are now covering this story; and what do we show to our neighbors as being the face or voice of Saratoga? This bald headed, drooling, babbling clown named Kyle York, that's who.
Kyle: STU and find something productive to do with your life.
@10:54 am. The Rec Center on the South Side near the projects has been an unqualified success. The kids from the Terrace would never have been able to use it way out on Wiebel Avenue. I think because Scott J. grew up in the Projects he was especially sensative to the needs of the underprivileged in this city especially the children. I know most of you are blissfully unaware that there are poor families in this city but there are. Some children do not have a parent to bus them to activities on the outskirts of town. Some children are left to their own devices. The rec center is a great place and is full of energy and fun. It's about time someone actually thought about the south side kids.
Reading all the comments answers the question of why this wasn't put to a public vote of some sort. Saratoga NIMBY's never like anything that doesn't have a horse on it. Maybe Kyle can switch gears and start concentrating on the new $2.6 million parking deck that is suddenly a very high priority now that Bonacio's new building is rapidly going up in the neighborhood.
The rec center has done a lot for the children in the city especially in the Jefferson terrace. What a silly town! The Dems want police stations and the Republicans want to help the poor kids. Apparently no one but the children who weren't even born yet want to remember 9/11. Funny place.
12:11,
"He just ain't right, ya know? We think he got dropped on his head when he was a young 'un."
HOW could I POSSIBLY be more LUDICROUS than a LIGHTNING STRIKE?!?!?!!!!! But... I shall accept the award for the Honor it is! And IFFFF the accompanying artwork is a JT original, I’ll raise the ante— If you’ll autograph that gem, I open the Auction with a bid of $100, payable to one of the many great charities of your choice.
YES, I am BALD and a serial BABBLER. But I do it as part of an effort to give voice to the eloquent opponents who had to work or were not haughty enough to make it onto Joel Reed's e-list of A+ celebrities—
http://nowherethisnews.blogspot.com
With or without a gilded e-invite, it would have been nice to see/hear Jim Kunstler again. I’ll never argue that the two men aren’t good artists... I simply wonder if a visionary talent doesn’t live a wee bit closer than FIFTY miles from J. Fox Jewelers.
IN CONCLUSION... I thank John and The Academy for my Award and I apologize for my shortcomings. MANY can certainly be traced back to the scar on my left forehead from when I tripped and fell onto a sharp edge of Public Art, way back when I was a kid... WITH HAIR!
I got better though.
-Respectfully,
Kyle "I-am-NOT-a-DROOLER" York…
...and I STILL say LANCE was ROBBED!
You need to instill a "LIKE" button under Kyle York's comments.
"For my $.02, put it in the reflecting pool over in the state park by SPAC."
August 17, 2011 10:54 AM
********************
Excellent idea, Worth way more than 2 cents.
Sculptures of that maginitude and significance need A LOT OF SPACE AROUND THEM to look right.
Surrounded by a pool to cool the thouhgts, combination of all the elements Earth, Water, Fire Metal will give it a full context. These are subliminal things that do affect us, believe it or not. They calm us. this scultpture deserves a calm setting.
Very very good suggestion. Best one yet.
Don’t ever get me wrong I might bust Kyle's balls but I like and respect him
Citizen Nanny {Nancy Muldoon} just called for vandalizing the 9/11 memorial
"It will be placed in front of the visitors center and it will look ugly as sin and will be shit on by pigeons and others.Hopefully it will be defaced (in fact a little spray paint might do some good.)"
http://nancymuldoon.blogspot.com/
Any man who admires Jim Kunstler has the mark of a Saint on him. I just can't see it for all them Tattoos...
The Relecting Pool suggestion isn't a bad thought.
But here is where the objection might arise:
That space is utilized for many outdoor weddings in the warm months.
Would you want that in the background of your wedding photos?
@ August 17, 2011 12:40 PM
I didn't mean that the end result (of the rec center) wasn't a very good thing, or that the change in venue wasn't an improvement in the plan as a whole, only that the process was flawed.
A flawed process leads to the kind of vitriol that is being spewed in this argument, as it was in that one. When we make decisions that are going to be unpopular with some specific group, it is all the more important to make them part of the process, or at least make sure the process is transparent and defensible. If we fail to do that, we lend support to those who would attack a good thing being done, for the bad process that was followed. (see Obamacare).
Also, they have fireworks at the Gala every year right over that area... (at least they used to when i was kid). (a) it removes the art as something that is "saratoga" and makes it something "NY". I think that is a good thing. Some may argue not.
As for the comment "It is especially sad for many reasons not the least of which is the contributations made to the project by the school children."... All i can say to that is, school children will donate to Al Queda if you tell them to... they are young, creative, and kind by nature since society hasn't beaten it out of them yet. Ask them to give to just about any charity, and they will. that's not a bad thing, but to use their donation as a reason to not like the end product of "art" is like the teachers union crying "But it's for the children" when taxpayers want them to pay for more of their healthcare, pension, or anything else.
I'd rather the kids money was spent on a trip to a museum, or art supplies, or tutors, or just about anything... because some of those kids will see this thing and want their money back... I bet the grade school Lego club could have built a more suitable memorial. $1000 worth of legos goes a long way if you buy them by the pound on ebay...
So we have devolved into a mob that actively calls for vandalism against any city owned property we don’t like. Muldoon should be arrested
Isn't she the same neurotic who said that a woman who was attacked while walking home late at night got what she deserved in some sort of karma kickback way? All because the woman has pissed her off at work years ago or something like that?
Tempered by Memory rising out of the middle of the reflecting pool that sits in the center of the promenade at the SPA STATE PARK while car shows and weddings would be going on...AWESOME.
How did this remembrance of a terrible tragedy and of the attack on America and lives lost devolve into petty Saratoga posturing and petty jealosies. Once again the overeducated and/or those who just think they are the more intelligent prove it really is about them. Thanks guys.
i like the reflecting pool idea.
Well, once it is there, people can decide whether they still want to use that location. The only downside would be for people who have scheduled the location, and would have to make a decision to move their wedding, or have the scupture there.
If it is so bad that you don't want it at your car show, or wedding, why would you want it at the visitor center?
There is parking aplenty (unlike downtown) even for busses.
People who were affected by the events of 9-11 could actually choose the location BECAUSE the scupture is there. Some may even decide to have their wedding photos taken with it, as a way of including lost loved ones from that tragic day.
PS, the Saratoga running team holds their meets there in the park. Kids from all over the suburban council will run past the memorial on the way to the finish line...
How many of those kids will see it at the visitor center?
Other races are held there as well, to which people flock from all over the state and country. How many of them will see it at the visitor center?
Stick that thing in the middle of downtown and it gets lost amoung the big buildings, traffic and general chaos that is "downtown".
Put it in the park, where it is quite, and you may actually be able to hear yourself think to recall your memories.
For us ALL to "hear ourselves think," there is no better place and no better time than now--
The PUBLIC has not been TOLD and does not UNDERSTAND that this project is a HYBRID...
...a H-Y-B-R-I-D...
...a disastrous meeting of two opposite-bound trains on a single track called Broadway.
The ARTS COUNCIL started a private venture to make a SCULPTURE. There was no need to follow the traditional widely-used 11-step process to create successful PUBLIC ART...pages 1 and 10-13 are the meat and potatoes--
http://www.art-stl.com/assets/pdfs/PublicArtGuide.PDF
That PUBLIC PROCESS was not needed in Joel & Co's PRIVATE venture.
BUT... it seems they weren't able to find a landowner/merchant to DISPLAY their 13-ton sculpture. So they "GAVE" it to the City.
After the City's January 5-0 vote to ACCEPT full and sole Ownership of the sculpture, the City was obligated to move forward with an OPEN process...
...like the one outlined in PDF above.
And so we have a trainwreck, an irresistible force meeting an unmovable object, a "Siting Committee." All because of a massive over-sized jungle-gym for drunks ready to honor 9/11 with a string of injury lawsuits arguing... AND WINNING... that the City was irresponsible and negligent in placing the structure where unsupervised access was a certainty.
Yes Virginia, even stupid drunks can hire a personal injury lawyer.
-Kyle York
Victim of the Arts Council's loco motives.
Thumbs up for the loco (crazy) motives / train double entendre / analogy...
Well done.
I would just like to say that,, which one of the city council members have served their counrty of their own free will???
We all enjoy the freedoms of living in this country but forget the lives that were lost 10 years ago,WTC AND CONTINUE EVERY MINUTE OF THE DAY.
What about this governments young men and women getting Burnt,Poisioned,shot and blowen the fuck up,searching for WMD HaHa. Mr OBAMA said they would ALL come home...YA RITE.In Coffins!!!!!!!!1
More or less this statue should be placed in the most visible place so that everytime you drive by it you can wonder who is being KILLED today TO LET ME WALK FREE on this earth,just think when you sleep people are DYING and when you wake PEOPLE are DYING to give "WE THE PEOPLE" YOUR FREEDOMS!!! IF THE CITY COUNCIL THINKS IT IS AN INSULT TO REMEMBER THE DEAD THAT MADE, WHATS LEFT OF THIS COUNTRY, WHAT IT IS, MAYBE THEY SHOULD GO TO IRAQ OR PAKASTAN AFTER THE FIRST HEADSHOT THEY SEE MAYBE THEY WILL THINK ABOUT IT YA THINK.
VETERANS OF WW1, WW2, KOREA, VIETNAM,GULF WAR THAT ARE DECIECED ARE PROBABLY ROLLING IN THERE GRAVES OVER THE UTTER BULLSHIT HAPPENING TOO THIS ONCE GREAT COUNTRY
SOON WE WILL ALL BE DRIVING RICKSHAWS BECAUSE SOMEONE CUT OUR BALLS OFF (AND WE LET THEM)
I almost hate to say it because it is such a cliche, but all of those veterans died so that people like us anonymous bloggers can express ourselves freely, whether you like what we say or not. If you believe there is some sort of afterlife, and I don't, I bet those vets are somewhere arguing in the same way.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh-K.
We should take a 2 step process with this memorial.
Let's put this in Congress Park, near the War Memorial, for the 9/11 Anniversary coming up and for a few months. This can be done with a mounting that is safe but not permanent. Services remembering both those days and also the respite program that Saratoga Springs mounted afterward can be organized in the same location...
Later, with some time to think more clearly, we can look at alternative locations, including State and City land.
But, please remember the spirit of the Respite Program. Just 48 hours after 9/11, Saratogians pulled together, regardless of politics, religion or perspective - to offer Saratoga as a free respite location for hundreds of families of police and firemen who were first responders and workers at the Ground Zero site.
This program happened without bickering or politics. It was focused on how do we, as a community, do a small thing to be of help to people who were directly impacted.
Let's recapture that spirit. We have a sculpture, let's find a place to use it as part of the anniversary of 9/11 and then work together to find the best and most appropriate place for it afterwards.
Meanwhile, let's explore other l
Can we get an update on the Donnes trial versus NXIVM?
Thanks.
Hey, York-the-Dork! A few questions:
Q- WHERE and WHEN have "DANGEROUS" sculptures been cited and removed?
A- History teaches--
"The Arts Commission voted unanimously to dispose of the piece due to safety considerations. The sculpture had been a magnet for kids to climb and sit upon."
http://lbindy.com/2011/03/10/rusting-sculpture-removed
"Richard Serra’s site-specific sculpture “Tilted Arc” was removed from a Federal Plaza in lower Manhattan after complaints that the sculpture was a safety hazard."
http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/files/123.WL_.VARA_.pdf
"The metal cow is a hazard that should be removed. The cow, cut from a steel plate and intended as a piece of art, has sharp horns that are like "swords" that could impale somebody either accidentally or during a scuffle."
http://articles.mcall.com/1985-07-31/news/2487809_1_cow-police-officer-policeman
Q- In a NATION this BIG, you got only THREE problems? Not many “Child Killers,” eh Yorkie???
A- Most Public Sculptures are SAFE because they follow the universal 11-step Public Process, see pages 1 and 10-13: http://www.art-stl.com/assets/pdfs/PublicArtGuide.PDF Step 6 calls for preparation of an RFP. The internet has THOUSANDS of RFPs, virtually ALL use the same "boilerplate" language to ensure a SAFE design:
"The Commission is seeking sculpture available for an exhibit. Design and materials must mitigate any potential hazard to the public; such as a safe surface for climbing children."
http://www.ssf.net/DocumentView.aspx?DID=903
"Particular attention needs to be given to ensure artworks do not represent any danger to adults and children; as such issues such as sharp edges and secure attachment."
http://www.tweed.nsw.gov.au/ArtGallery/pdfs/CSW06TermsConditionsEntryForm.pdf
"Works deemed unsafe or otherwise unsuitable will not be considered for the exhibition."
http://www.sculpture.net/community/showthread.php?t=2785
Q- WHY would experienced ARTISTS and wise ARTS COUNCIL LEADERS do something so…well, so STUPID?
A- The chosen Artists make sculptures for PRIVATE owners. So an individual can pay $120,000 and be delighted to have the sculptor jab them in the eye with a red hot piece of rebar. As far as leadership this disaster is a sad example of on-the-job learning. But there IS a future for the steel and an appropriate memorial:
Our City’s Director of Risk and Safety Marilyn Rivers has not yet weighed in on the sculpture. Ms. Rivers takes her responsibilities seriously. But while we wait for Ms. Rivers’ emphatic warning/rejection, the way forward is Tempered by Reality-
With an unusable sculpture made with 13 tons of WTC steel, now is the time for the City Council to re-start the Art program… only THIS time City guidance can assure a proper process by following the 11-step process (see PDF pages 10-13).
Let the City Council appoint a “Planning Committee”, and welcome ideas that use “raw” steel AND designs of melted steel fill the Public Space with a safe and accessible creation.
For the immediate future, the sculpture will be moved to the DPW Garage on the West Side, secure behind the lot's fencing. The dangerous 10-foot “neck” will be cut off.
Any work by the "Siting Committee" is doomed to failure...unless the fenced-off DPW lot tops the list.
Q- Please... HOW is it that YOU are smarter than the ENTIRE City Council?
A- I am not smarter. They simply haven’t heard from their Expert, Marilyn Rivers.
But they will.
We ARE united in one thing: wanting Kyle Dork to just go away.
Agree w/ Eliot massie above.
"Convinced he is on acid said... "
We are NOT united in that sense. I don't have the time to keep all our govt. officials honest, so i am glad that he does, even if he does it with a sense of humor you may not appreciate.
While i may not agree with him all the time, and may not like the answers to the questions he answers, you should realize that at least he GIVES ANSWERS... unlike so many who post anonymously, and many of our elected and appointed public officials.
To be heard and noticed in our current environment, you can not politely and quietly ask a question of our tax-payer funded employees... as you will be ignored. You need to just about make news, or you may as well be silent.
9:10
He gives answers? Here is what you are missing:
He's giving answers to questions that aren't part of the conversations.
"Hey Kyle; how's the wife?"
"I caught a fish yesterday"
Kyle York has become a full blown PUBLIC NUISANCE. He "look at me, ain't I cute" routine is way past being even remotely amusing. He is interfering with the public input process of council meetings and is, in general, getting in the way of thoise of us desiting to engage in adult conversations.
I think we are at the point of needing to come up with a community solution to the KYLE YORK PROBLEM.
I don't know if it requires law enforcement or mental health professionals--but something needs to be done.
Hey Kyle: you forgot the part about how this statue could explode--spontaneously!!!!!! Get on it, man!
So post a question... i bet he answers it. BTW, saying a question is irrelavant isn't an answer, unless backed up with logic that shows why the answer is irrelavant. (and still i'd answer the question if i could, becuase it's just easier than listening to hollars of "you didn't answer"....)
Dear City Citizens,
Thanks to the critical concerns raised by Kyle York, we have unndertaken a comprehensive review of all structures in this city and analyzed their potential for causing drunks to get hurt if they were to fall off of them.
Accordingly, we announce the removal of these structures from the city:
- The Spirit of Saratoga statue
- Spit and Spat
- The Carousel ride
- All parking garages
- All city ownned stairs (Park, City Hall, etc)
- All bleachers and grandstands
- All street curbs
- All horses (real or fake)
In addition, we have asked the State Liquor Authority to suspend all liquor licenses in the city. After all, if you don't have drunks, you won't have drunks falling off statues, right?
This policy is in effect immediatley.
In recognition of Mr York's efforts, we hereby declare August 19 as:
"The Day Some Batshit Crazy Bald Guy Convinced Us that Saratoga Springs was Officially Filled With Idiots with Too Much Times on their Hands"
Thank you.
PS: we also announce that people bringing stupid and menaingless props to Council meetings will be forced to leave.
"Bemused said...
The rec center has done a lot for the children in the city especially in the Jefferson terrace. What a silly town! The Dems want police stations and the Republicans want to help the poor kids. Apparently no one but the children who weren't even born yet want to remember 9/11. Funny place. "
August 17, 2011 3:19 PM
Really this deserves a second go round as many other intelligent comments do in this thread.
The sculpture is here, everyone meant well we'll presume because we are decent folk.. God forbid everyone get all litigious over this. What a horror that would be. Just imagine. Calm.
Move on.
reflecting pool great idea.
the assholes who care can photoshop the scultputre out like the will any ohter flaw in their stupid watsteful IN THIS ECOMONY? wedding. Same goes for a car show that would find a scultpure to the heroes and martyrs of 911 a bad backdrop do not deserve to be called Americans. They can go s**t in their hats as my gram would say. She would say shite...
thank you John for lending some credibility to the defunct in sanity place by provided a good forum.
To "IN THIS ECOMONY? wedding"-
You are FAR more eloquent
than the English language can convey.
You & your Gram have made us proud.
Now please read up on "Municipal Liability" and "Constructive Notice."
And "ECOMONY."
-Kyle York
American by Grace of Birth.
@)2:01 wow you really are the dumbass douchebag they say you are aintcha.......
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